My Resignation

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Re: My Resignation

Postby Auretious Taak » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:00 am

Screw this, I'm gonna be critical as opposed to overly polite.

Caleb Liaw wrote:Hello all;
As you know, this is the last game for a number of people, so perhaps everyone can say their goodbyes in this one thread?

For some people, the ridiculous zombie wedding at the afterparty was the last straw.


The zombie wedding thing was puzzling, surely it could have been done ingame instead and mayhaps gained a few points for originality on the field as opposed to at the afterparty where it was recieved with a mixture of hilarity, abject disdain or wanton boredom and being ignored. I was the latter to be honest.

For some people, it's just peer pressure and ridicule from everyone about the maturity of the HvZ game.


Did you have fun Caleb? I had a shed load of fun. Screw people who don't want you to have fun. I'm 25. I'm one of the oldest players of the game this time around and to put it bluntly: I don't care whether people think it is an immature or soft core game. It was fun. It is meant as a way for people of all walks of life to build friendships and have fun whilst doing it simply because they are forced to do so in the course of the game. I did this, did you? Did the people who are complaining about the maturity of the game achieve this feat? No. Do we care as a collective whole that outside forces look on the game with disdain because we're a bunch of adults running around and playing with toy guns like little kids? Do the people leaving because of peer pressure even understand these core concepts of HvZ?

For some people, it might be the rules.


Mayhaps. But then, this is where maturity as an adult comes into play in recognising all the forces that the mods have to deal with in order to riun the game in the first place. We don't live in a pretty world. It is a common concern of the general public about terrorist attacks, school massacres and other horrid things in life and there are many forces weighed against the game which have to be taken into consideration which, as a humble player, you don't stop to think about. I've yet to approach macquarie University about setting the game up because I understand a good deal about these factors and presenting it to the student socity group and the university itself as a game needs to be approached in a certain way. Throw in security issues and external forces acting to restrict certain aspects of the game and you just have to deal with rules changes which restrict certain items of gear being used. No tactical gear, make it by hand like i did. After the ban on tactical gear I am pretty sure i was the only one with a bandolier for the rest of the game purely because I sewed one by hand with a bit of thought. In terms of rules changes to OZ's and stun times et al, there are issues with weapons creep and issues with balancing the kill to survival ratio each day which are bloody hard to do. The mods had a rough time of it this game. Compare it to your first game - how many people had a Raider as standard? Almost none. this game, 70-80% of players had a raider, and even with reduced stun times and OZ rules enhanced, there still weren't enough first day kills to guarantee a balanced game. It went up and down from there all game and surviving became challenging on the field every single day because human numbers had been decimated utterly especially after thursday night when so few of the remaining survivors turned up and more then half that did died. Rules changes happen, and they happen for a reason, but they aren't made light heartedly. This is where maturity as a player comes into the fold.

For me, I just graduate at the end of the year.


I don't attend your university. I'm 3 hours away. nick was from brisbane and drove here. Other people played from interstate or who have graduated university already and had time off of work to play instead. Why is the question, though it has been answered above.

HvZ is a very exhausting game, both as a zombie (physically), and as a human (mentally).


Very true, though this is a challenge in the game itself and makes for a very enjoyable game in a unique sense. You forgot exhausting for the mods who after every day went and had a 3 or 4 hour meeting to discuss the day, whether things for the next days needed to be changed, if so how without breaking one side or another, just balancing the game to ensure there were Humans to the final stand which none of us made it to anyways, is just one aspect of being a mod which is exhausting. heck, as players we have it easy. Recognise all members of the game man, it's not just players, and we have it easy compared to the mods. but you played 3 games, if you hadn't enjoyed it for some reason, you wouldn't have played another game, myself I will play more games despite the exhaustive nature of the game, because it was fun and I made many new friends.

Playing a game part-time (as I did in G2) is no fun, and I don't really feel like wasting five days of Annual Leave on a game that will make me far more tired than the working life itself.


That's sad. HvZ has been incredibly relaxing for myself. I am sure many of the associate members will agree that the week off of work has been more then worth it and I am sure the Men in Suits can vouch for the fact that you don't have to actually take leave to play the game if you are in Canberra anyways for the game or local to any of the games being played for that matter. It's really a matter of how you approach the game itself, part time play with just evening and weekend play can be incredibly rewarding so i am lead to believe. it's basically a bunch of mini-HvZ games all week as opposed to one long continuous one. justa different approach is all that is needed, though personnal preference is always applicable, but making the generalised statement that plying part-time is no fun at all is taking away from the positive and enjoyable impact that people like The Men in Suits had on the Human and Zombie game in the evenings when they were playing for example.

So, this is goodbye HvZ for me.
You're all wonderful people, and I look forward to many more years of friendship with you all. But just not as a brother-in-arms.


It is sad indeed. It was my first game and you were a good player to move with, very solid communication during movements and reliable to move with in a pair. You will be missed by many I am sure.

Go play the Wagga mini-games. they occur every few Sundays. Different style of game, but equally fun if you look at it in a different manner. Otherwise, best of luck with life and many more years of friendship I be looking forwards to as well.

I've had a good run - G1 as a very active zombie, and G3 as a very successful human - I only lost one soldier (Fiona) under my command in the many runs I've led. So, I feel like I've experienced all the game has to offer.


Ahh but this is where style and game play comes into the fiold. being an active zombie or a successful human is one thing but approaching the games in differing ways is where the real challenge lies. Can you be as successful a human running a pair of socks only for example?

The constantly-constricting ruleset, which now extends to metallic paint and has apparently very-tight power restrictions, just kind of makes all my effort and money (well over $700 in guns, parts, tools, and ammo) feel completely wasted - and makes me a bit paranoid about trying to make any more weapons.
I might come back if/when the ANU stops being so ultra-conservative.


You are playing in an environment with tens of thousands of people NOT playing, many look on in amusement many with disgust. i almost pointed out a girl who gave me the biggest filthy ever on Tuesday and told her in a very loud voice that would carry that her look of utter disgust as I played with toy guns and had a blast load of fun just made my day, but i didn't, i held back. If I had an overpowered gun and my dart had hit you, you'd have laughed it off and accepted it. if I had hit that girl and got her in the eye and seriously injured her, not only could I be facing being sued but the game would more then likely be banned at ANU and no one would be having any fun. Rules-sets also are constricting in terms of adaptation to such issues as weapons creep (how many people ran a raider or multi-shot automatic gun in Game 1 compared to game 3?), an evolving core player base (the player base was mostly hardcore players this game compared to previous games, as such the zombies started to utterly ravish the human lines and numbers employing stronger tactics and communication lines to respond to human movements making it challenging to just survive as a human), outside negative influences acting to get the game banned (Channel Nine+Annonnymours Caller claiming that people at ANU were weilding real guns and getting ready for a massacre or were the SWAT Team or what have you as a start) to name just a few.

To the $700 spent on guns, ammo et al, wow, you spent $700 yet got a years worth of fun, enjoyment and most importantly solid and lasting friendships with people scattered all over the place not just in Canberra itself. $700 for a years worth of fun and things to do in your own time as well as friends which may well last a life time. Not that bad all things considered. I spent more then $700 in the past year on games workshop miniatures for a new army for 40k and whilst I made some new friends and had a bit of fun with it as I joined the aussie tournament circuit, I didn't make half the number of friends I did playing a single week of HvZ which i spent upwards of $500 to prepare for, live down here for a week and acquire guns and ammo for as well as materials to strap guns, make stuff for costumes et al.

For those of you who are thinking "he's just whining about not getting Human Style," that is indeed part of the reason.
I've put over $200 into outfits exclusively for this game - and I get told "you're always stylish."
I've put about five hours into training Thriller - and it doesn't even get a mention.


The Human Style Award isn't just about showy clothes man. Wow, you spent $200 into clothes just for this game. Who said you're the only person who did that this game or any of the other 2 games? You have a flair and dress stylish and also have your own particular style in terms of play but so too do many other people. i can't remember who got the Human Style award, but many, many people deserved it this game because there were quite a few people who did things in grand style. Raider Man had a play style that was simply insane, yes he was recognised for it but he deserved human Style as an award to my mind. How much is the biggest Morphsuit that is made? those things aren't cheap. What about the pants that said Morphsuit wearers were forced to wear specifically for this game? What did they cost? Yeah, you trained 5 hours of Thriller, that's great, and your Thriller dance made me laugh because the humans behind you had no clue except for the chorus. it's been ll of 1 day since you did your dance and in that day you had the opportunity to submit the recording of your thriller dance to myles and the mods for consideration to be plonked in the video's/summary video of the game and whether you did or didn't it didn't make the cut, but hey, Myles and the mods aren't superhumans, they had a mega shitload of work to do today to get everything in order and wow, your thriller dance wasn't mentioned. There wasn't any footage of me sounding a single note no matter how crappy on my trumpet, did that disappoint me? A little, but I'm not bitching on the forum because of it.

Don't take the obvious rebuttal here and say that I got Best Human so I can't talk, I was genuinely surprised I got best Human, there were so many other people in my mind that deserved that award. I didn't use the forums frequently, most of the time I had no idea what was going on mission-wise and only got fed some information because hey, i was an unknown factor in this game, no one knew me really and so could i be trusted not to die if information/items were entrusted to me? Not really. It frustrated me massively, but I looked past it and had alot of fun, making things more fun where I could (Nite Finder Jousting was boring, galloping with Raiders {we needed longstrikes so as we had actual lances} and getting Fiona and the other chap in for clapping alistair pitts coconuts together for monty pythonesque horse riding and thus jousting properly for example) and doing what I could to make the game enjoyable for myself and keep those around me alive for that little bit longer. Sure i used my height alot of the time, but it was something i could do to help everyone around me. I wasn't expecting an award for playing the game. I came down here to Canberra to play a game that looke dlike an epic amount of fun and it really was. Have i considered how much money I spent to play this game alone yet? No. But it is most of a weeks paycheck, and considering I haven't worked for just on 4 months and was almost out of savings before this paycheck for my first week of work last week, it's a significant monetary investment on my behalf. But it's not bothering me due to the overall positive factors which made that investment of time and money worthwhile. Can you honestly tell me that over the past year of HvZ play and inbetween, that the $7-900 that you spent on the game was not worth it, that wherever you would have spent that money otherwise you will have gained more as a person? If so, fine. If not, stop bitching about the cost. money is transitory at best, good friends are priceless.

I feel severely underappreciated for all my money and effort - and whether it is due to conflicting with the rules, or simply subjective moderators, I really don't feel like putting any more into this game.


Today, in just shy of 12 hours, i get on a bus and head back to Sydney and i won't see alot of people here that I befriended for many months yet and that saddens me deeply. In much the same way, you deciding that you can't be arsed investing anymore of your time or money into the game because you feel under appreciated saddens me as well. In terms of Moderators, Moderators are allowed to be subjective, each team brings something different to the game, but they are under massive restrictions on what they can and can't allow. Safety for players and the greater ANU population is paramount at all times. That takes a heck of alot of skill and patience to achieve and sometimes we as players feel the effects, but we need to be mature about it and demonstrate that yes, we are adults playing with toys, arguements and miscommunication happen, but that doesn't mean we're immature about it. We enjoy the game and the friendships it creates.

Once again, thank you all for a wonderful final game to complement my final semester at ANU.
I'll still hang around on the forums to chat and hawk wares, of course, so I guess it's not really goodbye.


Cheerio mate and good luck with all that the future holds. i'll badger you in chat later in anyways.

Have a great day,

Luke.
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Tabby » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:25 am

But... But... But... I just met you =( Didn't even have the opportunity to run along side you considering I was a zombie fairly early.

Caleb, you will be missed.

Also... I had my "wtf?" face on the entire time during that zombie wedding thing... And I wasn't the only one.
...Brains?
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Sentinel » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:01 am

Tabby wrote:Also... I had my "wtf?" face on the entire time during that zombie wedding thing... And I wasn't the only one.

For some, this was a week to run around like nuts in funny clothes with toy guns. For others, it was a chance to cross dress, get covered in blood, or play chasies. I'm certain that the WTF face was common on the faces of many who shared the campus with us this week... So if you can't accept a few people wanting to dress up as zombies and do something silly for fun, it's hard to see how anyone else should have to accept HvZ as whole either. Chillax and let it be. It may not be your cup of tea, but it isn't hurting anyone and someone's having fun.

Peace.
"It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive..." - Miracle Max, The Princess Bride
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Re: My Resignation

Postby BLACK_Commando » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:00 am

damn, last (C or K) aleb standing... :(

we may not have been well known to each other, but you saved my butt a couple of times, and you were very friendly. ill miss you. may your endeavours in life be great.
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Ruri » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:18 am

Will definitely miss you Kata, I hope HvZ ropes you back in eventually. :)

As for the zombie wedding... I'll definitely say it was odd and perhaps a bit badly timed, but they seemed to have a ball, so eh, why not. ;P Having said that, HvZ in general is frowned upon by so many people. I'm sure most of us have had run-ins with HvZ haters at one point or another (be it online or offline). Inter-club 'frowning-upon' will just fester more conflict. Let it slide, imo. It really is not worth getting worked up.

money is transitory at best, good friends are priceless.

*thumbs up*
Loli is in your Nerf guns, shootin' your zombies. >:3
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Lardman » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:38 am

Butts.

(I've spoken to you IRL about this so, you probably know my slightly more serious position)
:lol:
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Myles » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:08 am

Sorry to see you go and hope you reconsider.

In regards to the Human Style Award - it greatly hurts your chances when you have to be warned repeatedly about your appearance by the moderators. The moderators didn't make the weapon rules changes - ANU security did, but we had to follow them. If you can't deal with that then I'm sorry, but complain to ANU security - not us.
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Re: My Resignation

Postby MinimanMidget » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:25 am

Speaking purely as a zombie, you saved the lives of many a team mate over and over again. Things will be easier with you gone, but I doubt they'll be better. Your professionalism and good sportsmanship made hunting you fun. I had a ball stalking you, thanks mate.

(that weird zombie who wore a red cap)
I just fell asleep...
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Re: My Resignation

Postby Angus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:27 pm

Caleb,
I'm sorry to hear you're leaving, and I hope you come back to play again some time. However, some of your complaints are a little strange, as I will detail below.

We have restrictions on tactical gear and painted guns because ANU Security tells us to. There's no option here - either we abide by their rules or the game gets banned. I realise that you didn't blame this on the club in particular, but it's a point that needs to be made clear.

It seems to me that a lot of the enjoyment you got out of the game was in spending money on making cool stuff. That's perfectly legitimate, (and if you can afford to spend a thousand dollars on three games of HvZ then all the power to you), but you have to realise that the game can't focus heavily on that aspect. HvZ was designed and continues to be a cheap game for poor uni students with little disposable income, and as such the awards/prizes are focused on things which aren't influenced heavily by how much one is willing to spend. As an example, I spent a grand total of ten dollars on the first two games of HvZ, and won an award each time. In the third game I splashed out on a Raider, and that's probably as far as I'll go. No-one wants HvZ to turn into a spending competition, and as such the mods are even likely to deliberately favour people who were awesome without splashing out. Sports where spending big = winning are perfectly ok and have their place, but I'm surprised that you thought HvZ would be one of them. Perhaps you should try motor racing.

Hope to see you at another game,
Angus
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Re: My Resignation

Postby sarlacc_pitt » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:42 am

a few parting shots caleb? vindictive much?

and i will add a counter to the ever-expanding list: what did you expect to happen when you painted "T---?" on your tact gear?

but i am here not to condemn, for many others before me (and many after) will do that. i instead am here to praise. you and me caleb, the rallying voices of the humans. and yet you were louder and clearer than i. you contributed more to the humans than i did

i am also impressed as to how long you survived. the 3hr mark, long the joke of HvZ, has been broken. when i improved my survival time by a mere 2hrs, you improved it by more than 5 days. considering that you were prepared to not even make the magic 3hrs, this is quite the achievement. i salute you

i for one enjoyed the paint jobs you did on your weapons. i thought they were quite creative. and i was saddened to hear the news that they were banned. in fact i was saddened to hear that most of The Aviator's guns were banned under the new rules

speaking of The Aviator's, did you not enjoy dressing up? you won an award for your efforts. yes it was a Squad award, but EVERYONE in the squad contributed to you winning that award. is that not recognition enough? i was sad when i didnt win an award for spending the whole time in tweed carrying a horse and coconuts, but the fact that my squad won Squad Style more than made up for it

and then we come to the Thriller. was it awesome? yes, because you, caleb, are the only one who can dance in the whole game. in fact i thought it was ruined by your back-up dancers (and the fact there was no musical accompaniment, but i do not blame you for that)

after considering all of this, and everything i did not mention that happened in the previous games, the question must be asked: did you have fun? only you can answer that question. If you enjoyed yourself, does it really matter that you didn’t win an award? does it really matter that you spent enough money to buy a small country on guns and the modding thereof? finally, is it worth parting with such bitterness if this is not an accurate reflection of your true attitude? i know i’ve enjoyed myself throughout, and i’m very sad at the fact that this might be my last game too. we’ll miss you caleb, it just seems a shame to soil those good memories with a bucket of bile
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